GOUtah! From Our Readers

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Th following e-mail was sent to us and we infer that it had been sent to the state senators listed at the top.
It serves as a reminder that not all gun-hating hoplophobes can be simply categorized solely by their political party.

gdavis@utahsenate.org, cbramble@utahsenate.org, gbell@utahsenate.org, dcbuttars@utahsenate.org, pknudson@utahsenate.org, dpeterson@utahsenate.org, emayne@utahsenate.org, bhickman@utahsenate.org

Senators,

I have known some of you for years and some of you may remember me as a former legislative candidate as a Democrat.

I left the Democrats because of the bias towards lawful gun owners in the party, it got back to me that I was not a favored candidate because I was "a gun nut". Now lately I have spoken with several members of the senate and House who are Democrats and have expressed my dissatisfaction with the integrity of some Republicans.

I have been a party office holder in the Republican Party, but am considering a return to Democrats as they are not such a big money, and power favoring group as I see the Republicans.

Things like closed caucus v open caucus, me being forced to delete a tape of a State central committee meeting and outright civil rights violations by party brass to friends of mine.

I have been assured that Utah Democrats having realized that gun rights are a popular issue here in Utah and nationally has caused a lot of losses in close races for the Democrats.

I have been told that many Democrats are getting concealed carry permits, and the perception of guns bad in the Democrat party is changing, this is encouraging to me, as a result I am watching the Democrats as many of my Republican friends have also been doing. I like the fiscal conservativeness of folks like Peter Coroon, The Republicans have taxed and spent the little guy to death, hypocritical to say the least.

Please consider that it may be possible to change perceptions of the Democrats being the anti gun, big spender Party by your vote on this issue SB 251.

The fact that Bell is a Republican gives the Demos a valid argument against the label of anti gun if they so desire! Please vote against this bill.

Sincerely Randy Nielsen

9 February 2007

2006

From Craig Fields, Director of Internet Operations, Gun Owners of America (GOA), to GOUtah!

Howdy.

In reporting on fallout from last year's New Orleans gun confiscations, you stated on Saturday that:
"We understand that at least one state legislature somewhere in the country is considering a bill that would make it explicitly illegal for state or local officials to order the confiscation of legally owned firearms from law-abiding citizens, even during a state of emergency."

It may please you to learn that Gun Owners of America is guiding such bills in a dozen or so states this year.

A majority have already passed their initial chambers. The vote totals have been OUTSTANDING: almost always veto-proof, with no close votes at all.

Not one single such bill has been killed. We are seeing a movement here, and fully expect to get solid law in at least half of the states in play. At the very least. That will of course make it easier to pick up a bunch more next time around.

As a result of action on Friday, the first of these bills in the nation is going to a governor: Haley Barbour of Mississippi will have to sign or veto first.

We expect several others to be engrossed within the next 7-14 days.

I also note that two actual vidoes of the confiscations are available for viewing at http://www.gunowners.org/notb.htm on our website.

You guys are a great organization... I ALWAYS read my GOUtah alerts.

In liberty,

Craig

2003

An email received 31 October from an anti-gun activist taking us to task. As N. W. Clayton observed "... someone who has visited the ... website, but who apparently doesn't 'get it'"
Regarding your "Waste-O-Meter," if you check with the BCI, you'll find that the NICS data is not as complete as the information used for Utah's criminal background checks. The BCI has created computer interfaces with Utah courts and police offices to ensure that locally generated and recent arrest warrants, restraining orders, etc. are combined with the NICS data for background checks.
Indeed, one of the greatest criticisms of the NICS is that state and county data are often not included with it for every gun purchase in every state. I believe federal grant money has been earmarked recently to help other states and municipalities make the same computer linkages that Utah has made.
The bottom line is, if the Utah data was not added to the NICS data, we'd miss a lot of criminals.
As for the cost-effectiveness of the background check, remember that the Dept. of Justice has estimated that it averages about $78,000 apiece to catch and successfully prosecute each incarcerated criminal. We spend money on background checks, but it's cheap compared to the cost of tracking down and catching armed felons, and this is only considering money, not lives lost, injuries sustained, or medical bills incurred that the taxpayer often has to pay for.

Lorna Raty Brown
31 October 2003

Say what?
Your analogy is flawed in your discussion of "CHURCH AMENDMENT TURNS A GOOD BILL INTO AN ANTI-GUN BILL" [re. Alert #157] as background, "A sign need not be large and obnoxious; it can be a small transparent window decal, for example, showing a picture of a gun with a red circle around it and a diagonal red line across it."
Common sense indicates that in either case (a decal or roadsign) this is true. Speed limit signs are not large and obnoxious, we notice them, as we are motivated, or feel the need is important to our situation. Your analogy ignores the posting requirement --- i.e. there would be speed limit signs.
I find no problem with this, as I will be looking. In fact, if I would have no problem in using the same method of opting for the same approach, if I wanted to apply it to my own home. While I have my gun, there may be someone I would not feel comforable [sic] with in my home with theirs.

Lee Skabelund fmulcahy@tecr.com
23 February 2003

2000

Hi, my name is David and I'm a 22 year old fellow gun owner. Over the last few days I've been watching the news and have had a few thoughts. Yet I feel powerless when I want to feel empowered. Rather than sitting back and watching events unfold in the past as I've done, I've decided to make my voice heard not only with a personal commitment to vote, but to send this letter out to as many as possible.
I've been watching the Million Mom March on the news and heard the main organizer of the event say that gun owner's should fear them. Well, I as a gun owner do fear naively zealous attempts at solutions to it's grievances by attacking the object of their frustrations rather than problem. It reminds me not to long ago in history when another group of people meant to cure society of it's problems by prohibition. As history proved, bandade solutions don't work. A simple solution to the complex problem with alcohol as with gun violence is that it is the subject of complex human behavior and simple fix it bandade solutions don't work. The legacy that prohibition left was organized crime. The legacy of gun registration, the precursor to confiscation, as proven in Britain and Australia's gun bans, at best will be an increase in crime. The only way to solve issue's of gun violence with children and in society is with education and a commitment for positive, practical, and unsuppressive change. Countries that seek solutions by thought suppression and gun control such as Russia, China and Nazi Germany to name a few are doomed to failure. I only hope that the people, for and against gun control, will see that the only way a democratic society can resolve issues is through enlightenment. And I hope that people will remember what our country was founded on; A deliberate desire to escape a suppressive government and make sure that that would never come to pass in our newly formed country. Hence freedom of speech being the first safe guard and the right to bear arms the second in the bill of rights. I know my rally call will be, "No repeat of prohibition," and I hope yours will be too. And I'll make my vote heard.

David
16 May 2000

(Proof that there still is a large, untapped market for Prozac)
I'm sorry, but are you crazy? It makes no sense whatso ever to have private citizens owning guns. It obviously serves no purpose whatsoever! Protection? No, suicide. What country that has restricted arms sales completely has continued to have high rates of handgun deaths? You are crazy. Deterance doesn't work, you fool. An individual is not a state militia, and if one is then they should be regulated by the state, which they are not. There are too many state militias for any organized democracy if that's really what you believe. Thanks for keeping America "safe." Do you feel safe? I don't, I don't really trust you with a handgun, do you trust me. I hear voices, do you still trust me? Do you feel comfortable leaving it up to a draw? A draw with no regulations? You're insane, and by your own admissions I'd have shot you down by now. Still feel comfortable? If so, screw democracy I like your way. Let's distribute them so deterance will actually work, why discriminate on the basis of being able to afford a handgun! So you believe that only people with enough money to buy a gun should have protection huh? No, your way would work much better if everyone had one. And no sissy hidden drawer stuff, real gun on the hip in a holster stuff. Real men and women stuff. Forget locking it up so the kid can't find it. Survival of the fitest, if your kid puts a gun in his mouth accidently then he deserves what he gets. I mean, who wants an idiot like that growing up in a country that distributes handguns. Obviously not you. And no foreigners will have guns because we don't want to waste this kind of distribution on temporary citizens--geez your way would sure work for border patrol! And education too, if a kid gets a D on a test, the teacher may rightly feel like the future is being threatened by the stupid kid who's too lazy to study. Bang, teacher has a gun and it's self defense. No gangs would survive really either, if each had a gun they'd just kill each other off. Wow, you've convinced me, even the voices in my head are cheering. We'd feel much better if everyone had a gun. Wouldn't you?

Summer Alison Shafer brwnpaprbg@home.com
8 April 2000

1999

I agree, no teacher should have to become a cop if they don't want to. It takes lots of hrs to get the class one this fellow is speaking of, and I agree, the only thing they need is the CCW permit.
To force a Dr.'s to be responsible for each patient is absurd to say the least, and deserves no further comment. Who is this dumb blankity blank spouting off big mouth Mr. Elwood Powell? He surly (sic) dosn't (sic) represent my views as a gun owner or a human being, glad I do not belong to any of his groups.

larry
7 September 1999

Honorable Orrin Hatch,

WHAT ARE YOU DOING!! Has beltway-itus got you? Has the quest for the white house overtaken you? We have voted for you to keep your tenure and we were happy to have you on Judiciary. BUT, NOW YOU'RE GIVING AWAY THE STORE!
Might I remind you that the State Convention is 5 June, or are you coming? We had hoped that the insulting dressing down you gave us at the last convention over kiddie-med was an aberration. However, joining with liberal king makers to thwart our sovereign rights is the ultimate violation of the Utah voters trust.
Fix the child/school problem, quit serving pap to patch the symptoms and attempt to placate the unplacable social engineers from the left who would have tattooed numbers on our wrists. Roll back your attack on the second amendment, get the bureacrats out of our faces, and give parents back their legal right to raise disciplined children.
Hopefully you or a staff member have read this far so I can assure you I am not a right wing kook, nor an "NRA nut". I have held local and state party positions for many years and am currently a voting district chair and member of the State Central Committee. Further, I'm not generally inclined to vote any but the straight Republican ticket. And, I spend a good part of every day in an inner city high school.
Your performance on all of these gun control, individual rights, flight from the Constitution issues has put you in a deep deficit position. I suggest you consider coming to the convention and recanting all of these socialist schemes, after withdrawing support for these abhorrent gun control measures.
Concerned but optimistic,

J. S. Granducci, II
5322 S 2100 West
Roy, UT 84067
Sent evening 20 May 1999

I was appalled by many of the statements made by Elders Ballard and Morrison over the weekend in the Tribune article. If it is true that, "they expressed concerns about the proliferation of automatic........ weapons", then their policy is based, at least in part from a position of ignorance. Well, I could point out multiple misconceptions displayed by them in the article, but I know I would be preaching to the choir.
The real reason for this E-mail is to inquire as to, if you are aware of an E-mail address that goes to someone in authority at the church office building, and if so would you kindly reply with it. If this is truly the church's position on gun ownership, I would like to respectfully lodge my disagreement with it.
Thank you for your help in this matter.

Randy Petersen phoenix@nicoh.com
17 May 1999

To All:
There are some elected officials who will buy -- hook, line, and sinker -- any random OPINION that comes from some one (or a couple) LDS leaders. We have to be prepared to respond to these OPINIONS (they are not official policy no matter how bad the UEA wants it to be). I believe this can be most effectively done by minimizing the significance of these OPINIONS, putting them into the proper perspective of being in the minority.

MY RESPONSE TO M. RUSSELL BALLARD'S AND ALEXANDER MORRISON'S REMARKS (see www.sltrib.com/05161999/utah/105969.htm):
"Oh, it was just their opinions; they're entitled to them. The Church leadership are probably just giving the minority in the church a fair chance to air their views -- just like they did regarding the Democrat party news interview. After all, who wants to stifle the minority in the Church just because they believe differently?"
"I'm sure that for every one leader with those views, there are that believe differently. But official Church policy is supported by the unanimous approval of the First Presidency and Council of the Twelve -- the scripturally-constituted governing body of the Church. As you recall, the Church declined to endorse, or even consider, the latest resolution backed by several other churches in Utah that called for stricter gun laws. They have also not taken an official position on guns other than that the Constitution and Bill of Rights are divine documents and that it is a law in heaven that a man has every right to defend himself and his family from all forms of danger and tyranny."
"This included Joseph Smith, the head of this dispensation, who carried a very concealed, pepperbox pistol into prison (very much against the law) and used it to defend himself and his friends against the murderous mob (he fired 6 quick shots and wounded three men as they rushed up the stairs in Carthage to kill him). His timely actions slowed the mob and likely saved Wilford Woodruff and Willard Richards from also being murdered. Thank God Joseph was able to have access to that pistol or our third President might never have been."

HINCKLEY'S APRIL 19 REMARKS (quoted by SL Tribune at www.sltrib.com/05161999/utah/105969.htm):
"It becomes apparent to all that a way must be found to keep the mentally ill from senseless acts of violence," Hinckley said. "You cannot have an indiscriminate allowance of firearms without abuses."

MY RESPONSE: "Hey, I completely agree with President Hinckley. You can't have totally indiscriminate allowance of firearms without abuses. If someone with serious, violent mental illness gets out of a psychiatric facility or prison too soon, and they get unlimited access to firearms, there could be real trouble."

P.S. Exerpts from President Gordon B. Hinckley's interview with Larry King (portions accentuated):

� Larry King:	This is politics aside then?
� Gordon B. Hinckley:	Politics aside. The Church does not become involved in politics. We don't favor any candidate. We don't permit our buildings to be used for political purposes. We don't favor any party.
� Larry King:	But you do speak out or will speak out more on moral issues?
� Gordon B. Hinckley:	We speak very strongly on moral issues. Gambling, liquor, what have you. Yes.
� Larry King:	Against them all. Right?
� Gordon B. Hinckley:	That's right.
� Larry King:	How about guns?
� Gordon B. Hinckley:	GUNS, WE HAVEN'T DONE MUCH WITH. I don't have one.
� Larry King:	Neither do I. But are you thinking about maybe speaking out more on that?
� Gordon B. Hinckley:	I DON'T THINK WE'VE GIVEN ANY CONSIDERATION THAT I REMEMBER.

Mr. Black
17 May 1999

How can we blame it all on guns?
Letter to the editor of the little ol' San Angelo,Texas newspaper.

�

Editor:
    For the life of me, I can't understand what could have gone wrong in Littleton, Colo. If only the parents had kept their children away from the guns, we wouldn't have had such a tragedy. Yeah, it must have been the guns. It couldn't have been because of half our children being raised in broken homes. It couldn't have been because our children get to spend an average of 30 seconds in meaningful conversation with their parents each day. After all, we give our children quality time. It couldn't have been because we treat our children as pets and our pets as children. It couldn't have been because we place our children in day care centers where they learn their socialization skills among their peers under the law of the jungle while employees who have no vested interest in the children look on and make sure than no blood is spilled. It couldn't have been because we allow our children to watch, on average, seven hours of television a day filled with the glorification of sex and violence that isn't fit for adult consumption.
    It couldn't have been because we allow our children to enter into virtual worlds in which, to win the game, one must kill as many opponents as possible in the most sadistic way possible. It couldn't have been because we have sterilized and contracepted our families down to sizes so small that the children we do have are so spoiled with material things that they come to equate the receiving of the material with love. It couldn't have been because our children, who historically have been seen as a blessing from God, are now being viewed as either a mistake created when contraception fails or inconveniences that parents try to raise in their spare time.
    It couldn't have been because our nation is the world leader in developing a "culture of death" in which 20 million to 30 million babies have been killed by abortion. It couldn't have been because we give two-year prison sentences to teen-agers who kill their newborns. It couldn't have been because our school systems teach the children that they are nothing but glorified apes who have evolutionized out of some primordial soup of mud by teaching evolution as fact and by handing out condoms as if they were candy. It couldn't have been because we teach our children that there are no laws of morality that transcend us, that everything is relative and that actions don't have consequences. What the heck, the president gets away with it.
Nah, it must have been the guns.

Addison L. Dawson
San Angelo

M.H
Provo
17 May 1999

Apostles have been known to make an occasional mistake. (Even plotting against the life of Joseph Smith.) It might be more to the point if they posted "no unrepentent killers allowed".

D.P.
Northern Utah
16 May 1999

One of reports appeared on my computer the other day. Read it. was impressed. request I be added to your list.
How long have you been around? About the only visable gun group I knew about was/is USSC. I approve of the no comprimise design.
Thanks.

H. H.
27 April 1999

Thank you for your position paper.
The type of individuals who were involved in the recent tragedies were disobeying the gun laws. And as such individuals would continue to do so, it doesn't appear that changing the law or making it more strict would be of any use in these circumstances.

Representative Pace
27 April 1999

The governor has apparently called for a 90 day period to reflect on recent events prior to calling a special session of the legislature. He is very considerate! The special session will occur in July just prior to the Pioneer Day holiday, unless I am off in my timing. With many activists otherwise occupied, these issues will presumably be revisited in a more relaxed and unpressured deliberative atmosphere.
While I don't feel the need to change the existing CCW law or for a special session and regret the actions taken in the late legislative session with respect to the Olympics and CCW restrictions, if there must be a special session for the consideration of school violence then it should be used to deal with ALL the issues inherent in the matter. Since we are all concerned with the well-being of our children this would provide an excellent opportunity to address the issue of the reform of education in Utah. Let us agitate for the reform of education at that time as well. We have about 90 days to ramp up pressure for education reform but gun rights supporters, constitutionalists, and education reformers must be educated that these issues are linked. I am on the Board of the Utah Coalition for Freedom in Education (UCFE), a supporter of education reform and the Chairman of the Summit County Libertarian Party Organization. The UCFE is a coalition and most of the folks involved are conservative Republicans. The Public School establishment and the UEA regularly inform us that they want education reform on their terms. This presupposes a command and control structure and greater federal involvement. The education establishment staged this fight by forcing the institutional structure which created an environment rife with opportunities for tragedy. They should be involved in the brawl rather than an partial bystander and above the fray. Predictably, the usual demagogues have stepped up to fan public hysteria before the popular media. These need to be countered by activist freedom stakeholders. I now hear that the Attorney General perceives a political will for additional weapons legislation. We should help her realize a coincident will for education reform.
I wouldn't be surprised if many of the local spokesman for education reform would relish any opportunities for a soapbox and would appreciate supporting calls for education reform from nontraditional quarters. Are there nought but socialists with lungs in the legislature? They must call for an evaluation of the efficacy of compulsory education, the public school system and how much more we have to sacrifice to perpetuate this socialist sacred cow. If, as we frequently hear, poor parenting is the cause and, therefore, the key to the solution, then how is it that any attempts by parents to ensure regular education choice outside the public system are not permitted without considerable economic consequence? Many parents who are uncomfortable with the public system cannot vote with their feet. Education reformers and gun rights advocates should seek to cooperate to advance both causes and ways must be sought to achieve this. Is this possible?

C.K.
Park City
24 April 1999

First off, thank you very much for what you do. Second, what can i do as a normal citizen to protect my gun Rights? I have read every one of your e-mails with great interest. During the Legislature sessions I followed your advice and e-mailed and called the appropiate law maker. However I would like to do more. I am currently overseas, and I sometimes feel vunerable being without self protection. But I want to know how I become more involved to make sure that the ideas of a few 'self righteous' anti-gun sematics are not taken to the extreme as to effect my gun rights on any level. No matter what laws are made, people that want to commit these acts of violonce will find a way. So all these laws do is infringe on my rights as a gun owner. Please tell me what I can do to help?first off, thank you very much for what you do.

A.J.
Overseas
24 April 1999

(A GOUtah! suggests that for starters you :

Be aware that powerful people and institutions are using any excuse to limit your gun rights.
Become and stay informed of exact facts and current threats to your gun rights.
Be vocal in spreading the actual facts and the truth to those who are not informed, both gun owners and non-gun owner alike.
Make your voice heard in the open public forums of talk radio, letters to the editor, speaking in public meetings and within your professional and trade organizations.
Never give in and never give up.

Share the GOUtah! message with everyone you know is or may be supportive of our position.)

(RE: GOUtah! Position Paper of 20 April 1999) Very well said.
I was recently in the uncomfortable position to respond to questions from medical professionals on why increased gun restrictions should not be initiated. Now I have a rational, logical explanation to give them. Thank you for your efforts. I agree 100 percent with your conclusions.

D.O.
Provo
24 April 1999

Take away guns and those who have no regard for human life will use bombs, bow and arrows, knives, common tools or even vehicles. More people are killed in cars than by guns, but you don't hear the politicians trying to limit the purchase of vehicles. Unfortunately the Democrats are sounding like 'Chicken Little.' Please find out if Mr. Babarin was a concealed weapon owner. If not, what possible right does Mayor Corradini have to make a negative comment about concealed weapons laws during the press conference after the library shooting? I am sick of all the "Bandwagon" politicians. I make note of them and do not vote for them. Well, I have said enough. Thank you for sending your emails.

L. B.
23 April 1999

(A GOUtah! Note: At this time there is no evidence available that suggests Mr. Babarin was a CCW permit holder or that he acquired his firearm through any controlled channel of distribution. Further, Mr. Babarin's son is suing Valley Mental Health for failing to properly care for his father's mental condition.)

I enjoyed your GOUtah! website and will be back.
In the last few days I have emailed news agencies, senators, the governor and anyone else I can think of, trying to save our gun rights! Keep the faith and I will continue doing what I can.

B.P.
Utah
23 April 1999

I love what you are doing! Keep up the good work! I am a county and state delegate to the Republican conventions from voting district XXXX. As the county nominating convention is coming up on the 10th, are there truly any individuals worth supporting for Republican party leadership? I am particularly upset with Republican imposters that say anything, then when elected conveniently forget what the republican party platform says. This is a problem that is manifest from the governor on down. How do we combat this?

K. L.
SLC
5 April 1999

I wrote two letters and a number emails to the Governor expressing disapproval of SB122S2. I guess he had another agenda.

S. G.
Provo
5 April 1999

I really don't like Gov. Leavitt
I really appreciate all the updates! Keep up the good work! I have been e-mailing the senators but only eight replied with a agreement statement. Who have we elected?

M. L.
Logan
5 April 1999

In a Salt Lake Tribune story by Greg Burton dated 20 March, 1999, Salt Lake Olympic security organizers were considering a grand total of three firearms lockup points for the entire state of Utah. One would be located at the University of Utah's Rice stadium, one in downtown Park City and one in either Ogden, West Valley City or downtown Salt Lake City.
Fascinating they are considering the U of U's Rice Stadium since, per news reports, the U claims (illegally in my opinion) firearms are not allowed on campus. Are campus police going to be standing by to "arrest" anyone entering campus on their way to the Rice Stadium lockup with a legal weapon?

L. T.
Vernal
5 April 1999

Everyone responsible for the creation of this abominable bill, (SB122-S2) including the Governor, is guilty of treason against the People of Utah, and has made Utah safer for criminals at the expense of our safety and well-being.

R. P.
Northern Utah
5 April 1999

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