"Nothing significant has ever been achieved by men who let apprehension corrode their principles."
-- Jeff Cooper
GOUtah! does not endorse any political party or candidate. However, when any candidate in a major race specifically invites gun owners to meet with him, we will pass that information on to you for your consideration.
GOUtah! was contacted last week by the campaign of Rep. Ron Paul (R- Texas), who is running for President, and we were told that Mr. Paul is specifically inviting Utah gun owners to meet with him at one of three events on September 15, as listed in the following excerpt from a press release which was sent to us:
SALT LAKE CITY, UT - Utah Ron Paul 2008 is pleased to announce that ten term Republican congressman and Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul will be in Salt Lake City on Saturday, the 15th of September.
The public is invited to help Dr. Paul celebrate life and liberty at a rally from 1:00 pm to 4:00 pm in the historic Grand Hall at the Union Pacific Depot at The Gateway. Dr. Paul will be speaking on the Constitution, the proper role of government, the issues facing the country and his Ron Paul 2008 Hope for America presidential campaign.
Additionally, there will be two opportunities to meet with Congressman Paul during private fundraisers: a Brunch Reception, $1000 minimum contribution, and a Private Briefing and Evening Reception, $2000 minimum contribution. For additional information, please visit www.RonPaul2008.com/saltlake or to RSVP to Andre Campos Andre@RonPaul2008.com or Charlene Roberts Charlene@RonPaul2008.com.
In our previous alert, we discussed the matter of legal open carry. One of our readers pointed out that some people might get the mistaken impression that open carry is legal under all circumstances, regardless of whether one has a concealed-weapon permit or whether one’s gun is loaded. Unfortunately, this isn’t the case.
Our interpretation of state law is that if you have a concealed-firearm permit, it’s legal (under state law) for you to openly carry a loaded firearm in any location where you can legally carry it concealed. We’re not attorneys, and you should not regard our opinion as constituting legal advice, but that’s how we read the law. (Did we mention that we're not attorneys?) It appears that some portions of the law enforcement community don’t understand the open-carry laws, and we will work to educate them on this in the future. We will also work to obtain an opinion from the Attorney General’s office on the matter of openly carrying a loaded firearm with a permit. In the meantime, don’t be surprised if a law-enforcement officer questions you if you openly carry a firearm (even if it's unloaded or even if you have a permit), and don’t be surprised if he doesn’t understand what the law actually says in this regard. Recall that local gun-rights activist David Nelson was challenged by a police lieutenant in Salt Lake City for openly carrying, but was later sent an apology by the Salt Lake City Chief of Police, who acknowledged that Mr. Nelson was carrying legally.
Ironically, the Utah Bureau of Criminal Identification (BCI), which issues concealed-weapon permits, does not seem to really know much about the legality of openly carrying a loaded firearm with a permit. Various people have called BCI and asked them whether it’s legal to do so, and have gotten various answers ranging from "no" to "maybe" to "why on earth would you want to carry openly?"
If you don’t have a concealed-weapon permit, things get a bit more complicated when it comes to open carry. In general, it is our understanding that you may legally carry a firearm openly (UNDER STATE LAW) without a permit AS LONG AS THE FIREARM IS UNLOADED and AS LONG AS YOU’RE CARRYING IN A PLACE WHERE GUNS ARE NOT PROHIBITED BY LAW (such as the secure area of an airport terminal, for example), and AS LONG AS YOU POSSESS THE FIREARM LEGALLY (i.e., you aren’t prohibited by law from owning a gun, etc.) It’s important to note that THERE ARE SOME PLACES WHERE IT’S ILLEGAL TO OPENLY CARRY A FIREARM (EVEN AN UNLOADED ONE) WITHOUT A CONCEALED-WEPAON PERMIT, even though it may be legal to carry a loaded firearm in those places with a permit. Bus terminals and schools appear to be in this category. For example, state law allows you to carry a loaded firearm in a school if you have a valid concealed-weapon permit. But if you don’t have a permit and you carry a firearm in a school, even if you carry it openly in an unloaded fashion, you could get in big trouble with the law.
The legal definition of an unloaded firearm is slightly complicated, but with an autoloading pistol it basically means that you can’t have a round in the chamber.
Also, note that we stress "under state law" in the above analysis. Federal law and federal regulations are a whole different matter. For example, if you carry a firearm (loaded or unloaded, with or without a permit, openly or concealed) in a national park, the Park Service can fine you for violating its gun ban in national parks, even if you are carrying your firearm in a manner that’s legal under state law. If you carry a firearm in a post office or on a U.S. military base or in a federal building, for example, you could get into big trouble with the feds even though your concealed-weapon permit may be valid on the premises under state law.
Finally, if you openly carry a firearm on private property, you may be asked to remove your firearm or leave the property, even if you’re carrying in a manner that complies with state law. If your firearm is legally concealed and the property is open to the general public, this may not be the case, but we'll discuss this further in a later alert.
If you wish to learn more about the legality of open carry in Utah, we recommend that you consult one of the books by Utah gun-law attorney Mitch Vilos. Here’s a link to his two books on Utah gun laws.
"Concealed weapons holders are far more law-abiding than the average citizen. We rarely if ever cause problems."
-- Brent Tenny,, President of Second Amendment Shooters at U of U, printed in an article in The Salt Lake Tribune, 27 August 2007.
"University of Utah student Brent Tenney is quoted in the Aug. 27 Tribune ('Stats show few campus guns') as saying that the near-absence of incidents involving guns on Utah college campuses during the years 2001 to 2005 'show[s] concealed weapons permit holders are law-abiding.'
The data on which he relies shows nothing of the sort. What it does show is that when guns were banned on campuses there were only nine occasions when students were found with guns, and in none of those cases was anyone harmed. The logical conclusion is that the ban on guns worked.
One must therefore wonder why the Legislature recently decided to replace a successful system with an untried one, a system which will allow permit holders to carry firearms into intercollegiate and intramural sports venues, classrooms and political rallies. And it allows any student over 18, permit-holder or not, to keep guns, including assault rifles, in his dorm room.
One hoped that conservative legislators would subscribe to the conservative maxim, 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it.' Instead, their guiding principle seems to be to loosen the rules concerning guns until people start getting hurt."
-- Steven H. Gunn, in a letter printed in The Salt Lake Tribune, 31 August 2007.
"In a Sept. 4 Salt Lake Tribune story, Danny Dutton of Hurricane justifiably killed a man in self-defense, but may go to prison because he used a gun he wasn't entitled to have - because he's a convicted felon.
So, in order for Danny Dutton to save his life, he had to commit another felony to defend himself. There's something wrong here.
Do convicted felons have reasonable expectations to be able to defend themselves if their lives are in danger when they're not committing a crime? If not, why not? The Second Amendment says 'the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.' It doesn't go on to say 'unless you're a convicted felon.' That's something that individual states tacked on later.
The Utah Legislature needs to revisit the law and stipulate that even a convicted felon who is not committing any other crime has the same right as any other law-abiding citizen to defend himself in a deadly situation - especially in his own home."
-- Jack C. Petersen, in a letter printed in The Salt Lake Tribune, 11 September 2007.
That concludes the GOUtah! Political and Legislative Alert #277 for 14 September 2007. We hope this information will be of assistance to you in defending your firearms rights.
Remember that getting this information is meaningless unless You Act On It Today. If you just read it and dump it in the trash, your gun rights, and the gun rights of future generations go in the trash with it. Get involved, get active and get vocal!
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